Sourcing Nicotine

CAAB
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Joined: Fri Jul 12, 2019 2:49 pm

Sourcing Nicotine

Post by CAAB »

One area I have neglected as a DIY NET vaper is nicotine. Originally, I purchased nicotine salts from Liquid Barn and left it at that. However, it struck me that it's a very important ingredient and shouldn't be overlooked.

Unfortunately, I am in NY, which is currently undergoing a vape ban. So my experiments are going to be curtailed. Perhaps someone else can carry the torch.

Recently I dabbled in the premium nicotine category. I purchased nicotine salts from Carolina Xtraction Technologies. It's a pretty hefty price tag compared to other brands, but it is extracted using CO2 process using organically grown US tobacco. Here is a description from the website:

...

"Supercritical Nicotine extraction from all US grown tobacco. The world-wide gold standard tobacco extract. CXTC 3C! Supercritical Fluid Extraction with Cold/Closed/Contained refinement technology utilizing North Carolina and Kentucky tobacco raised without pesticides, growth control agents or herbicides. Ultra high purity, diacetyl free, clear nicotine extracted using Cold CO2, Closed in the Supercritical chamber and Contained from all oxygen exposure from extraction, filtration to packaging. The result is a much smoother and clean flavor than kerosene/hexane extractions prevalent overseas with absolutely no occurance of oxidation, the real enemy of all botanical extracts. CXTC products have extended shelf life, require less flavoring additives which offsets the higher cost, while providing consistent, rich, full-flavor profile. "

...

I tried adding their nicotine to pure VG and vaping that. The result was very enjoyable. It was like vaping the mildest of Virginia tobaccos. I could see myself vaping the pure VG and having a good time of it. I think it will compliment my extracts very well. I think even for people who vape fruit or dessert flavors, Carolina Xtract wouldn't clash. It's a very mild flavor. I am leaning towards stocking up on it due to uncertainty in regulation.

I was going to try Wizard Labs and River Supply Co as alternates to do comparisons. However time is short for me in terms of the NY ban, so I may be unable to do that. If I can swing it, I will write here the results of my comparisons.

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Peter_Ramish
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Re: Sourcing Nicotine

Post by Peter_Ramish »

CAAB wrote:
Thu May 21, 2020 1:41 pm
One area I have neglected as a DIY NET vaper is nicotine. ...

I tried adding their nicotine to pure VG and vaping that. The result was very enjoyable. It was like vaping the mildest of Virginia tobaccos. I could see myself vaping the pure VG and having a good time of it. I think it will compliment my extracts very well. I think even for people who vape fruit or dessert flavors, Carolina Xtract wouldn't clash. It's a very mild flavor. I am leaning towards stocking up on it due to uncertainty in regulation.
Humm... that is a very interesting idea. I am going to try that ! :idea:

Years ago I purchased the product from Nicvape: https://www.nicvape.com/diluted-nicotine At that time, which is now ancient history, I sampled a bunch of vendors and the NicVape sample won the taste test by a wide margin. I did not know where they sourced what they were selling (they re-bottled it from a bulk vendor, they did not make it themselves). And probably their current samples are from a different vendor. One would have to go through the whole process of: "taste 'em all and let your buds sort them out". Then reach out an capture the best of the samples and buy a multi-year supply. That is what I did and I now have a estimated 10-year supply that sits in tightly capped and dark 0F storage.

I must say that the samples varied widely in quality. I remember I got some samples that were just terrible. So, unfortunately, the process of obtaining Nic is a pain in the ass. My recommendation is: When you find 'the good stuff' then reach out and grab a quantity.

And, of course, eventually, they will just out-law it for personal purchase, so you kill two birds with one stone if you stock pile some good stuff.

Thanks for mentioning this topic, as it is important.

CAAB
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Joined: Fri Jul 12, 2019 2:49 pm

Re: Sourcing Nicotine

Post by CAAB »

And, of course, eventually, they will just out-law it for personal purchase, so you kill two birds with one stone if you stock pile some good stuff.
Yeah, waiting for that day. That will be a real shame.

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50YearsOfCigars
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Your ability to obtain Nicotine is vanishing

Post by 50YearsOfCigars »

I have used NicVape as my primary supplier of very clean and very high quality 100mg/ml Pure Nicotine for several years.
I was just notified that they have discontinued sales and no long sell or ship inside the USA.

On 02/03/2021 I sent an e-mail to the Customer Support at NicVape asking for clarification and got this response:
My question: I want to order 100mg/ml nicotine (unflavored).. Is that still possible ?

response from NicVape:
Thank you for your email. Currently the FDA is trying to regulate vaping products. The deadline was 9/9/2020 and if you did not submit your application then you were not able to ship in the US, however, if you were able to submit before the deadline you were able to continue to ship for the next year. They did extend this deadline, but if you submit after 9/9 then you are not able to ship in the US until your products are approved.

Currently we are working on submitting our PMTA's. So, until we receive an approval back, we will be unable to ship domestically.

For the foreseeable future we are unable to accept any online orders. The owner does not want any backlash of any kind from the FDA.

We have been working on seeing if this is going to affect our DIY customers, but we have yet to receive an answer from anyone. If we do hear back about this, we will let our customers know.

Thank you for your understanding and patience.

I want to reprint here an article that I wrote back in March 2018 and posted in e-liquids-forum:

I read and edited through the Proposed rule making Document and got the following from: Publication Date in the Federal Register: 03/16/2018

The Food and Drug Administration (FDA) is issuing this advance notice of proposed rulemaking (ANPRM) to obtain information for consideration in developing a tobacco product standard to set the maximum nicotine level for cigarettes.

The scope of products covered by any potential product standard will be one issue for comment in the ANPRM.

The establishment of a maximum nicotine level (…) not only could increase the likelihood of successful quit attempts, but it also could help prevent experimenters (mainly youth and young adults)…

(now, here is the part where they back door into taking Nicotine off the market…)
Another possible countervailing effect of setting a maximum nicotine level for cigarettes could be users seeking to add nicotine in liquid or other form to their combusted tobacco product. Therefore, FDA is considering whether any action it might take to reduce nicotine in cigarettes should be paired with a provision that would prohibit the sale or distribution of any tobacco product designed for the purposes of supplementing the nicotine content of the combusted tobacco product (or where the reasonably foreseeable use of the product is for the purposes of supplementing the nicotine content). FDA is also considering other regulatory options to address this concern.

(here is where they get out the hand-cuffs and take you away… )
The Tobacco Control Act also gave FDA the authority to issue a regulation deeming other products that meet the statutory definition of tobacco product to be subject to FDA’s tobacco product authority under chapter IX of the FD&C Act. On May 10, 2016, FDA issued the deeming rule (81 FR 28973), extending FDA’s tobacco product authority to all tobacco products, other than the accessories of deemed tobacco products, that meet the statutory definition of tobacco product.

(Here is the paragaph where by the FDA directly threatens the DIY Community)
If a nicotine tobacco product standard were to prompt the development of an illicit market, FDA would have the authority to take enforcement actions regarding the sale and distribution of illicit tobacco products. … These actions may include initiating administrative actions or referring cases to the Department of Justice for initiation of judicial action. … Possible judicial actions may include seizures, injunctions, and criminal prosecution.

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Peter_Ramish
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Re: Your ability to obtain Nicotine is fast vasishing

Post by Peter_Ramish »

Wearing my chemists hat, I want you to understand that Pure Reagent Grade Nicotine is a very stable chemical. If placed in Glass containers with no oxygen/air heads space and stored at -18C (-0F) you can expect no damage to the product for at least 10 years.

I think the point to that above statement is obvious and needs no further elaboration to our group of DIY types. ;)

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Kinnikinnick
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Re: Sourcing Nicotine

Post by Kinnikinnick »

Every once in a while, I get the willies about the Gooberment finally putting a lockdown on the average Joe being able to purchase nicotine. I currently have roughly 1.5 liters of nicotine in storage; should last me a great while. However, on occasion I fish online for who is selling what these days. The issue which I have suffered as of late is this... I can't locate anyone in the US who still sells my go to manufacturer of nicotine... Chemnovatic.

So, if anyone is on the innerwebs and comes across someone selling Chemnovatic Nic... give me a heads up! Please and thank you :D

CAAB
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Re: Sourcing Nicotine

Post by CAAB »

I managed to stock up on a lifetime supply of nicotine prior to the NY ban. I have a low nicotine consumption so it wasn't difficult. My supply factors in waste such as failed recipes. Unfortunately I had to bet heavy on one supplier, I wasn't able to perform tests among multiple vendors. Although I have a fair amount from an alternate vendor.

With the upcoming ship ban for vaping products that effectively eliminates USPS, FedEx, UPS, and I believe DHL, now is the time to consider stocking up if you have them means. Longterm storage is another topic altogether, but it appears nicotine can potentially last decades if properly stored.

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Kinnikinnick
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Re: Sourcing Nicotine

Post by Kinnikinnick »

Well... I’ll call off the search for Chemnovatic Nicotine. With the looming vape mail ban, I just decided to bite the bullet and order “house nicotine” from a trusted source. My Freedom Smokes was the vendor from which I first obtained nicotine 6 years ago; also a descent price and quick/short ship time to my home.

The nic titrated +/- 110mg. One can only get a ballpark measurement with nic testing kits purchased from somewhere like Wizard Labs.

Now, I just need to break it down into a few glass bottles and find some open areas in the freezer.

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Peter_Ramish
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Re: Sourcing Nicotine

Post by Peter_Ramish »

Kinnikinnick wrote:
Mon Mar 08, 2021 4:56 pm
Now, I just need to break it down into a few glass bottles and find some open areas in the freezer.
Just wondering if you have had the past experience similar to what I had when trying various vendors samples of Nic. That was that there was a very definite flavor profile difference among all of them. Some were very good, pure and clean, but some had very distinct flavor peaks or "nodes" as I call them. even had the experience that one sample, which initially seem good from a flavor standpoint, well, I kept a few bottles of it around and after a couple of months it turned pink. i re-sampled it and detected a definite flavor change. So down the drain it went.

I wonder if you tried this method (quoted from @CAAB above) ?... It seems like this might be a good test regimen. Look for off flavors and so forth using this technique:
I tried adding their nicotine to pure VG and vaping that. The result was very enjoyable. It was like vaping the mildest of Virginia tobaccos. I could see myself vaping the pure VG and having a good time of it. I think it will compliment my extracts very well. I think even for people who vape fruit or dessert flavors, Carolina Xtract wouldn't clash. It's a very mild flavor. I am leaning towards stocking up on it due to uncertainty in regulation.

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Kinnikinnick
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Location: Raleigh NC

Re: Sourcing Nicotine

Post by Kinnikinnick »

Back in the day, when everything vaping was shiny and new, I used to obtain samples of nicotine from various vendors and review/discuss them on a couple of forums.

I would mix them with my typical PG/VG base as a stand alone liquid, give it a week or so steep, and determine/describe the profile. Some were quite tasteless. I would describe others as having an light tobacco note. I never did pick up on what some would describe in the nic as a “pepper” note. My best guess on that issue would be, every bale of tobacco leaves which hit the loading dock of the processing facility isn’t going to be the same; nor the process of extracting the nicotine.

Example: Carolina Xtract Tech

“Extracted from acre-traceable North Carolina and Kentucky botanicals raised without pesticides or herbicides. Processed using using our proprietary chemical free, cold extraction/cold purification process. Blended with double refined US/USP Grade Kosher Propylene Glycol.
Utilizing 3C Extraction Technology (Cold/Cold/Closed) our pureproduct is never exposed to any heat, chemicals or atmospheric contaminants.”

https://www.carolinaxtract.com/product- ... g-solution

I’d love to hoard their nicotine for the future, but at their price point per litre ($140), it ain’t happening. The old $65 per litre “house nicotine” will do me just fine. As long as it is somewhat clear and titrates at the proper mg/ml, I’m good to go.

Side note on Pink Nicotine:
I remember reading, nicotine which is exposed to nitrogen during storage process (i.e. pressurized storage), can develop a pink hue, particularly if the carrier solvent is VG.

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