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The Purge

Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2020 2:42 pm
by Kinnikinnick
After taking stock of what tobaccos I have macerated over the years, I decided to purge those extracts which I didn’t particularly have a longing to vape. Some were inferior tobaccos, turned out too be weak, have a rude amount of Latakia in them, and/or some were just not to my liking. In all, this turned out to be roughly 20 extractions. It might have turned out to be more, however, I’m going to have to mix up test batches of some of them to remind myself whether or not I really like them.

I do have a list of the ones that didn’t really float my boat. I would post them now, but I am posting via mobile… That can be a pain.

Anyway, the point of all this is, don’t be afraid to pour it down the drain if you find yourself not going back to a particular extraction after a year or more. It’s highly unlikely that your taste buds are going to change to the point you’ll like them again. Purge.

Re: The Purge

Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2020 9:09 am
by Peter_Ramish
I am very glad you brought this subject up.

I would be most interested to hear from others how they handle this "problem". I know there are a lot of lurkers out there that read these posts, but never respond, but in this case I wish everyone with a comment would make a REPLY to this post. (Yes I know you have to register here on the site before it will let you hit the REPLY button, but PLEASE just go ahead and register! I really want to hear comments on this topic.)

I think all of us that have been extracting tobacco for any length of time have run up against this problem. It is a tricky one to solve for a lot of reasons:

There is a natural human mental tendency to /never admit a mistake / very hard and against your better judgement to just 'cut and run' / maybe it will improve with age / my Mother always told me 'waste not - want not' / ... and other issues that are hard-wired into the human brain-computer.

I must admit I have, personally, struggled with all of the above. I think everyone finally must decide on an individual basis how they answer the question: "What do I do with the Dogs?"

I have only tossed down the drain just a very few samples. Mostly these were ones with profound 'technical extraction errors', but there were a few others that just did not anywhere near fit my personal TIS. All the rest I let 'hang around' thinking that maybe I should keep them for 'taste reference markers' -or- and this is my most common mental justification: "I will eventually just give them away and let someone else deal with the problem" After all TIS so one mans poison is another delight.

I admire @Kinnikinnick ability to just toss them down the drain, but I have never really been able to do that. How about you? How do you handle this issue? I know it is a pain, but (to you lurkers) just Register here on the BBS and drop a comment to this issue

Just for humor I will cut and paste here one of my very few actual "dumps".. I think this is amusing (my perverted sense of humor at work here) because I only extracted this after reading endless cheerleading for this tobacco over at STRV8Vision's e-ciagrette-fourm. Just goes to show you, no two sets of taste buds in two separate human brains are anywhere near the same !!!! :lol: -You can see it hung around for two years after the extraction was finished, and every time over those two years when I sampled it my reaction to it was always the same.
(Dumped Product due to non use on 9/11/2019)
C&D Old Joe Krantz -Combined finished and Filtered on 12/23/2017:
Slightly sweet for an English Blend Burley, Perique, Virginia toasty, nutty sweet, woody.
Batch#-21 8/20/2017 - 12/23/2017
Cold Ethyl Alcohol 28g -120mls
Batch#-22 8/20/2017 -
Cold PG 28g -150mls
Finished on 12/23 with 10 hr UltraSonic

Re: The Purge

Posted: Mon Oct 26, 2020 6:21 pm
Since I am new to NET I have purged the majority of my extractions. I started with PGA extractions. I found the flavor profile to be lacking, except for blends like Sutliff Voodoo Queen. However, upon investigation, I realized I was most likely extracting junk they put into pipe blends to add flavor. Didn't sound too healthy, so I just dumped the whole lot. For a while I was wondering if I could make candles from it just so I wasn't wasting the stock, lol. But I just had to let go of it.

The only thing I have left from PGA extracts is a straight Latakia. It's like seasoning, I imagine I can put a little bit of it in something if I find myself needing that Latakia kick. It's very powerful.

Then there's the H2O extracts. I dumped all of those over safety concerns. Although I think I have a potential method to evaporate an H2O extract in vacuum immediately after it leaves a 160 degree hot water bath, then add VG to the solid that remains. Alas, I was never able to keep the original H2O extracts in a safe temperature zone for an adequate length of time. Who knows what might have been breeding in there. It took me a while to come around to it, but I probably ended up dumping over a pint of concentrated extracts. Very painful.

Now I have 3 dozen PG and VG/PGA extracts just about ready to sample. I would be happy if 6 of those ended up being keepers. Although it will take a while to find out because some of them are cigar leaf varietals that will need to be combined with others to come up with a complete cigar profile.

I will try to give away anything I don't like, and some of what I do like as well. If any of it is too much trouble, I will just dump it. I think in my case there were a lot of hard lessons up front, but hopefully after this year I will be sorted with some good stock. Then I can add on at a more leisurely pace.

Re: The Purge

Posted: Tue Oct 27, 2020 9:36 am
by Peter_Ramish
CAAB wrote:
Mon Oct 26, 2020 6:21 pm
Then there's the H2O extracts. I dumped all of those over safety concerns. (..) I probably ended up dumping over a pint of concentrated extracts. Very painful.
Yes, I did not include our extensive experiments with the H2O. When the extracts are part of an intended "experimentation" (as in charting new territory..) I consider that just part of the development process. I think @Kinnikinnick was commenting on those extracts that are just not making the "taste buds" grade, as in TIS.

Anyway, I appreciate all your hard work with the water extraction process development. Both of us dove into the deep end of the swimming pool on that one. Because that territory was so uncharted it was inevitable that all those experiments would wind up down the drain. Although, like you, I did have a few that did pass the TIS, but because of safety concerns we both tossed them. I, still, would hope for comments from an experienced person in bacteriology that could guide us further on our experiments. I think it is clear that the method has much promise, but it just was so far out of my wheel house (industrial high energy chemistry) that I was just guessing about how to move through it.

Anyone that has not see the thread of our experimentations on that might want to puruse it. Of all the posts here on this BBS that one is far and away the most read, over 4,000 views. So, I think many folks are very interested in the subject matter, as it is clear that needs to be fully explored. It's just that I do not have the skills necessary, so hopefully someone that does have those skills will pick up where we left off. That thread is here: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=19

Re: The Purge

Posted: Tue Oct 27, 2020 6:30 pm
Yeah, regarding the H2O extracts, I don't think it was a waste of time or anything. It was just something that needed to be figured out and without a roadmap. I am pretty confident I have a good plan when I want to tackle it again. The key is treating the H20 extract like prepared food. You have to keep it in a food safe temperature range to inhibit microbial growth. Tobacco is an agricultural product that is intended to be burned for the most part, so you don't know what little microbes are in there. But if you can evaporate all the water once you're done making the extract and keep the time down to a minimum in the unsafe temperature zone, and use sterile equipment, you should be fine. Although again, it's uncharted territory.

The only problem I am thinking is that the solid that remains after the evaporation, you probably don't want to be touching that. Not sure what the level of nicotine would be in that. Better to get diluted in VG or PG.

I think once I find my favorite PG or VG/PGA extracts, I will give a try again with those using H2O.