First a DISCLAIMER:
=========
This Old School BBS was started by a very small group of niche tobacco lovers. Most of us have already mastered the basics of simple extraction techniques, so a “by the numbers” -or- “how to guide book” was not what we intended with the creation of this site.
However, there will be many folks, with widely varying levels of experience that stop by and want to look around. You are all more than welcome. However, if your need is to find out about the basics of equipment, techniques and so forth, then you would be better served at one of the major sites that is aimed at those just starting out. I would suggest you read the threads at:
https://forum.e-liquid-recipes.com/c/e-liquids/net-creations-and-reviews
There is a lot of good information there, but you have to dig through the garbage to find the gems. That is just the reality of the ‘free for all’ nature of modern internet chatter BBS. Over at forum.e-liquids there is no moderation by knowledgeable experts to weed out the nonsense, so you get a good measure of junk along with a little ‘cream’. If you can stand the pointless GIFs, the idiotic ad hominem attacks amongst the members, along with the occasional jerk that feels the need to troll or otherwise draw the whole community off track, then, I guess, you can get some basic information there.
=========
Having all that said I do want to add the following as my contribution to the “beginners handbook”..
To help out anyone starting on this journey let me explain a common mistake that many make, and hope this gives you a leg up so you don’t accidentally repeat a very common mistake when starting on the Tobacco DIY NET Journey.
The short of the long of it is: It is easy to mistakenly think that all DIY NET was to be made from commercial PIPE tobacco blends. You will get this idea from reading many NET threads in the major high profile BLOGS, BBS, and other various internet sources, where everyone only uses major supplier Pipe Tobacco (usually tinned but sometimes sold as bulk) from major players like D&R, Lane, Cornell & Diehl, Dunhill, etc.
That is a huge mistake. Realize that all pipe tobacco is cased or flavor infused, and much of it is blended to fit a specific and very popular pipe smokers preference for ‘old english Pipe Shop Blends’… That is an OK thing, but as a NET type you don’t want to be only in that world. I would suggest you start out with, say for example, 9 total jars, divided up as: 3 jars of the just mentioned Old English Pipe Blends, then 3 Jars of high quality Cigars, and lastly three jars of Pure Leaf Tobacco.
Here is an example of a 9 jar “starter kit”:
Pipe Blends:
American Patriot by Missouri Meershaum
Peter Stokebye - "84 Turkish"
C&R Habana Daydream
Real Cigars rolled from Pure Fermented Leaf Stock:
Partagas Black Clasico
Jose Marti Nicaragua Robusto
Pure Leaf Stock:
Scraps - Fronto Leaf
Scraps - American Flue Cured
Native American RYO Vision Hunter Fire Tribal Tobacco
.
You don’t have to use “exactly” these as listed, the point I am trying to get across is that you will get up much faster on the DIY NET learning curve if you start out with samples from three areas of tobacco type available to you.
You limit and hinder your learning about this whole world if you just macerated “old English Latakia” Pipe shop commercial blends !!
A word of caution about price. One of the great attractions for us that like to DIY NET is that the cost is very low if you carefully choose you tobacco feedstocks. Unfortunately the Pure Rolled Cigars have seen price jumps in the past few years that are shocking. I used to buy very high quality Nicaragua Cigars for $1 a stick. Now the same cigar is $5.
Also avoid any infused cigars like the ACID line and similar cigars intended for the younger ‘kiddie’ smoker market. What you are after is the pure fermented leaf that is the handi-work of the most well respected cigar blenders. Your best Price, overall, will be on pure leaf from leafonlydotcom and Bulk supplied pipe tobacco from vendors like smokingpipesdotcom. Unfortunately the day of NETing high quality rolled cigars is probably gone forever, but just to see what you get from that you should try one or two, if your budget can withstand it.
How Do I Make NETS ? Can You Teach Me?
-
50YearsOfCigars
- Site Admin
- Posts: 101
- Joined: Tue Jul 09, 2019 1:46 pm
-
50YearsOfCigars
- Site Admin
- Posts: 101
- Joined: Tue Jul 09, 2019 1:46 pm
Re: How Do I make NETS ? Can You Teach Me?
Many people might have found their way to this BBS during the adventure of searching the Internet that was motivated by their quest to use vaping as a means of Tobacco Harm Reduction. I want to reprint here a post I made several years ago on a general subject matter BBS that is geared towards those that mix, not from tobacco extractions, but from commercially made artificial extracts. That is where a lot of folks start the journey to vaping.
The Adventures of Joe Camel and the Old Dripper Continues - Part I
Since The total answer is very involved and covers many subjects as almost everything in vaping is involved that effects a successful outcome, all I can hope to do here is give a little thumb-nail starters overview to clear away some of the more prevalent cobwebs and mis-information that is common on this subject. I will split my answer into two posts. But there will still be much detail left unsaid. Hopefully the following two post thumb nail overview will be of some benefit.
First, of course the DISCLAIMER:
As everyone here understands, TIS, = “taste is subjective”. These comments are from the perspective of my taste buds only. Your milage might vary. FYI, in real life I am a NET tobacco vaper only. I do not, as a matter of personal choice and flavor preference, vape any synthetic flavors whether that be fruits and desserts on the one hand all the way to so-called ‘ synthetic tobacco’ on the other. I vape NETs only. Therefore, as in all published papers that attempt to explore a narrow subject matter, you must always look for ‘investigator bias’. I readily admit that there is plenty of that here.
Let’s start here: (PART 1)
For fun let’s give the Newbie on a Quest for a Camel Cig and his/her Mentor a name. We will call the newbie “Joe Camel” and he wants to quit combustable Camel cigarettes. We will call you (the Mentor) “The Old Dripper”.
First things first:
A few questions to ask Joe so we can get some information about where he is in the progression of using vaping to quit combustibles. For Joe Camel it will be a progression, a journey, and there is a start point. To properly help him we need Joes start point frame of reference. We need to know “where is Joe currently at?”
Ask Joe these questions:
1.) Has he ever vaped any vape product at all?
2.) If so what is the product name and type?
3.) If he has tried at least the two types like PODs and low end Tank/Kit which does he prefer.
4.) Is he familiar with some vape jargon like Direct Lung and Mouth To Lung?
If the above answers are mostly NO, then you will have to assemble a few products for him and step him thru the way each of those devices behave. At first, I would suggest you just mix up some 25/50 PG/VG (no flavorings, no NIC) and spent an afternoon letting him master the basics and work through the initial trepidation of such a novel concept. Judge his reactions, be observant. What is important to him? The clouds? or perhaps he likes to play with what pipe smokers call the ‘retro-hale’ (nose to mouth). Be observant, notice how he handles the vapor. What is his cadence between puffs, what verbal comments does he make about the experience?
After this initial ‘test session’ your work starts to begin. Hopefully Joe has just shown you a preference for certain types of vaping style.
Based on the style lets go to work with an example formula, and see how we will tailor it to the new vaper.
Explain to Joe that Taste is Subjective and that at first we are NOT looking for a result of “oh my God I just found the Holy Grail, I found by Gods luck the one juice formula that I will vape fore-ever…” Explain that patience is a virtue. It probably took him many years and many trips to various fast food joints to find the perfect greasy fries and burgers, vaping is no different, you have to try a lot of different things before your get the perfect fit…
But here is where we get down to brass tacks and some important considerations with converting a combustable smoker to a “tobacco vaper”. And this is where you as the “Old Dripper” must stay on your toes.
You might not be a “tobacco vaper” yourself, so some of the following might be new news even to you, but, trust me, it is critically important that you wrap your head around the following paragraphs so that you can do a proper job as the “Old Dripper”… —>>:Do you realized that: Most of what is passed off in the synthetic pre mix and DIY-recipe worlds that is called “tobacco vape juice” is not tobacco at all ?
Most of those recipes are just simple adaptations of someones favorite fruit or pastry recipe or candy recipe with a few drops of some very low quality imitation tobacco synthetic thrown in. Then the maker gets out his Label Machine and slaps a label that says “Fine Cuban Tobacco Vape” … A couple of problems with that. First, it is unlikely that the maker ever in his life tasted a Cuban Cigar, and second there is no a chance in Hell that mixing an overly sweet totally artificial pastry with a few drop of “something” will have the flavor profile of a Cuban Cigar or “Joe Camels’ beloved combustable cigarettes. To put it bluntly, in the internet vape recipe world, there is a level of nonsense, of mislabeling, and outright lying about what is a “tobacco vape”. It is at a point that it is almost beyond crazy. Confusion abounds everywhere and Candy and all various recipe makers have tossed out something they call a “tobacco vape”. But the reality is that almost none are, in any sense, ‘tobacco vapes’.
So the hazard is that your efforts to convert your friend Joe Camel to vaping is in real danger of failure as you give him sample of one overly sweet pastry after another. You will just confuse him and discourage his efforts. Let’s get him some tobacco flavor profiles right from the start.
So what makes up a “Tobacco Vape” ?
Time for a few definitions of words. Basically there are Four Group types of ingredients for tobacco vapes.
One Group is natural extractions made from real tobacco leaves. Some of those leafs may have benefited from careful and experienced hands that have fermented them in very specialized and controlled ways, or minimally processed them with methods like “flu curing” or extended aging. You see these ingredients in marketed products like Naturally-Extracted-Tobacco, LLC , as well as many small boutique providers like Want2Vape, and of course, us home DIY NET types.
Second Group is commercially made extractions from real tobacco using modern industrial herb and flavor extraction processes. Most people do not realize but this has become a huge industry in the food flavoring business and operates internationally. Some of these products are made with great care and are very high quality. For many years the center of this industry was in Italy, but now has taken a strong foothold in USA as well. You see these ingredients in highly marketed products like Black Note. You can buy these as concentrates for your own recipe mixing in products by INW (INAWERA) and some NicVape products
Third Group is not an extraction nor is it related to tobacco at all. It is the world of the synthetic food chemist. Because the flavor components of tobacco has been studied in great detail, it is known what the basic core compounds are that give tobacco its distinctive flavor taste and aroma. By creating analog molecules in the lab it is possible to make a product that seems to mimic tobacco for the consumer. The PROs of that is that the resulting product is patentable and can be financially protected by the manufacture, and also that it is usually very cheap to produce on an industrial scale, much cheaper than making natural extractions of the real plant material. The CONs is the chemistry brings with it unwanted secondary by products. Usually these have undesirable aroma and flavor components. Typical unwanted components are “plastic taste” and unpleasant and persistent tastes that take over and persist in the olfactory senses unlike natural flavors that dissipate in a pleasant and timely manner. You see these ingredients in highly marketed products like FLAVORAH - Additionally, often heard mis-information, is that somehow the artificial synthetic favors are “safer” than real tobacco extraction. The chemistry of that would have to be the subject of some other thread (actually books have been written on this subject and the chemistry is too involved to go into here. For those that are interested and have a college level background in chemistry you can PM me and I will give to you a bibliography list) . The short of the long of it is that commercial food chemists are mostly lying to you about the safety of their products.
Fourth Group is not so much of a group related to tobacco but is more a phenomenon of Social Media discourse, and has added tremendous confusion to the whole noble subject of “tobacco vapes”… I mentioned this above when I talked about “recipes that are just simple adaptations of someones favorite fruit or pastry recipe or candy recipe with a few drops of some very low quality imitation tobacco synthetic thrown in.” Then labeled and sold to you and Joe Camel as “Tobacco Vape”. If there has been nothing else in the entire world of vaping that has conspired to doom your friend Joe Camel to never have success with vaping it is that group of mis-labeled “products”. I understand that there are thousands of such recipes in the e-liquides-reciepie side of this web site, but please resist the temptation to use any of those when trying to bring along someone like our friend Joe Camel. Let’s get Joe Camel a pure simple experience he can use to start his vaping journey. An experience he can readily relate to. Let’s not shell shock his taste buds and his years of experience with combustibles and confuse him with this rag tag Fourth Group of recipes which amount to little more than a huge bag full of artificially flavored skittles with a slight almost undetectable drop of tobacco flavor thrown in as an after thought.
Now On to Part II
The Adventures of Joe Camel and the Old Dripper Continues - Part II
In part I we observed Joe Camel using several vaping devices. We made some notes, and created a plan of attack.
Hopefully it showed up during the tests that there was a clear cut device and style preference on his part. If not, try to steer him to a simple RDA or RTA in the 18 to 22mm size on top of a simple single 18650 regulated mod. Set him up with a 2.55 SS coil over 1.0 ohm at not more than 15 watts. Keep the airflow restriction down tight, in agreement with his past pattern of cigarette draws. In all cases try to steer him away from pods unless he insists. Although there are many pod adapters now made for regulated devices, it will be a hassle to clean and change wicking and coils on pod vape devices given the nature of the natural products that tend to gunk up coils much more so than synthetic products.
If low wattage single coils is not possible, and for some reason he is enamored with a huge dual coil sub ohm cloud setup, then don’t panic. Go with the flow. It’s all about Joe being comfortable. However, and here is an important point. When vaping real tobacco vapes (from my grouping in the first post of Numbers Group 1 and Group 2) You will have to adjust the recipe formula for larger cloud devices by adding VG to a base formula and dropping the NIC. This type of adjustment occurs in conventional non tobacco formulas as well, but it is super important when dealing with real tobacco vapes !
As a way of explaining this dilution process lets start with a simple example formula that is a nice dry Marlboro like Cigarette;
Example Recipe #1 Marlboro (Restricted MTL 15w)
1.5g - PG
4.5g - VG
0.5g - INW DNB -
0.2g - INW Virginia Abs -
0.4g - INW Garuda Abs -
0.6g - Nic (100mg/ml)
Example Recipe #2 Marlboro (Airy DL 35w)
2.5g - PG
7.5g - VG
0.5g - INW DNB -
0.2g - INW Virginia Abs -
0.4g - INW Garuda Abs -
0.3g - Nic (100mg/ml)
Let’s talk about this formula a little bit. First the method to mix any formula I present here is just to get an accurate scale that measures in grams and make the formula up exactly as I list it. Do Not try to translate it to the e-liquids calculator or any other “conversion type” calculator that is using hidden behind the scenes algorithms to give you “percentages” or “specific gravities” Just use the formula EXACTLY as I present it here. Mix by weight ONLY.
Note in the above two formulas that I have adjusted NIC and the ratio of PG/VG. Again, real tobacco extracts are very sensitive to the type of device, the wattage, and the coil type. I suggest simple single wire 316L Stainless. Stay away from exotic coils, and Kanthal will impart ‘off’ flavors to tobacco.
Now, depending on how our friend Joe Camel has reacted to this first round of taste testing you can proceed to use your judgement from here and possibly modify the formulas. But I suggest you let him go home with a 10ml bottle of these and let him “live with ti” a bit. Remember, he is making a big mental, lifestyle, and social change. It takes time. Be patient with him and supportive.
After he returns you can discuss his impressions of the experience. If he is making noises that this “pretty good” but needs to taste more like tobacco, then you have the oppurtinuty to Hybrid the base formula with a real NET like this:
Example Recipe #3 Marlboro (Airy DL 35w) HYBRID:
10.0g - 25/75 PG/VG Base:
0.5g - INW DNB -
0.2g - INW Virginia Abs -
0.4g - INW Garuda Abs -
0.3g - Nic 100mg/ml
2.0g - PreMixed Nicaraguan Cigar Filler
This will add a distinct “cigar note” and surprisingly many lifetime cigarette smokers have all along been “closet cigar smokers” and adapt readily to cigar flavor profiles added to their vape. To obtain Pure Leaf extractions like the Cigar Filler above you can make your own NETs or obtain them from some boutique shops that are willing to sell small quantities. PM me for details.
If you want to try another Marlboro formula for Joe Camel here is another HYBRID using products from NicVape and Want2Vape
Example Recipe #4 Marlboro (Restricted MTL 15w)
NicVape Cuban (0.52g)
NicVape Tenn (1.05g)
Want2Vape STOCKHOLM (2.10g)
VG (6.5 g)
PG (3.5
NIC 100mg/ml (0.7)
By this time I hope you are making good progress with your friend Joe Camel and are dialing in the taste flavor profile direction that he wants to travel towards.
Let’s RE-CAP a couple of take-away points from all this:
Stay away from commercial premixed so-called “tobacco vapes” like TRBECA /Halo which although labeled as Tobacco, are anything but!
Stay away from recipes you find on line that look like the kitchen sink with a little “tobacco” thrown in
Many dedicated and experienced NET types that are looking for pure tobacco taste (like our friend Joe Camel is) commonly use only a single extraction in the formula (like those that enjoy Single Malt Scotch), and rarely have a formula with more than 3 items ALL of which must be tobacco !
Mix Your own from products in the Group Numbers 1&2 above. Relying on pre-mixed commercial vendors is probably hopeless and a waste of time and money.
Stay away from sweeteners and what is know in the pipe blending world as “casings” These can be chocolates, rums, anise, and so forth. If you want to experiment with English Pipe Blends that have traditionally used these type of casings, then you would be better off extracting a NET from professionally blended experts like Russ Ouellette at Lane Ltd… If you want to experiment with such samples see my blog. 4
PS: INAWERA products can be hard to find, as they are made with real tobacco. Some USA Vendors like BullCity no longer carry them for fear that the FDA will take a dim eye about that practice. You can, however, get them here:
INAWERA is here: http://www.inaweraflavours.com/en/
NicVape is here: https://www.nicvape.com
Want2Vape is here: https://www.want2vape.com
The Adventures of Joe Camel and the Old Dripper Continues - Part I
50YearsOfCigars thoughts on this.I have a friend I’ve been trying hard to get off cigs. He’s about as particular as me. He smokes camel filters….Any suggestions?
This is a common refrain, question, pleading, request, call it what you want, but it turns up fairly often out in the vape world.
Since The total answer is very involved and covers many subjects as almost everything in vaping is involved that effects a successful outcome, all I can hope to do here is give a little thumb-nail starters overview to clear away some of the more prevalent cobwebs and mis-information that is common on this subject. I will split my answer into two posts. But there will still be much detail left unsaid. Hopefully the following two post thumb nail overview will be of some benefit.
First, of course the DISCLAIMER:
As everyone here understands, TIS, = “taste is subjective”. These comments are from the perspective of my taste buds only. Your milage might vary. FYI, in real life I am a NET tobacco vaper only. I do not, as a matter of personal choice and flavor preference, vape any synthetic flavors whether that be fruits and desserts on the one hand all the way to so-called ‘ synthetic tobacco’ on the other. I vape NETs only. Therefore, as in all published papers that attempt to explore a narrow subject matter, you must always look for ‘investigator bias’. I readily admit that there is plenty of that here.
Let’s start here: (PART 1)
For fun let’s give the Newbie on a Quest for a Camel Cig and his/her Mentor a name. We will call the newbie “Joe Camel” and he wants to quit combustable Camel cigarettes. We will call you (the Mentor) “The Old Dripper”.
First things first:
A few questions to ask Joe so we can get some information about where he is in the progression of using vaping to quit combustibles. For Joe Camel it will be a progression, a journey, and there is a start point. To properly help him we need Joes start point frame of reference. We need to know “where is Joe currently at?”
Ask Joe these questions:
1.) Has he ever vaped any vape product at all?
2.) If so what is the product name and type?
3.) If he has tried at least the two types like PODs and low end Tank/Kit which does he prefer.
4.) Is he familiar with some vape jargon like Direct Lung and Mouth To Lung?
If the above answers are mostly NO, then you will have to assemble a few products for him and step him thru the way each of those devices behave. At first, I would suggest you just mix up some 25/50 PG/VG (no flavorings, no NIC) and spent an afternoon letting him master the basics and work through the initial trepidation of such a novel concept. Judge his reactions, be observant. What is important to him? The clouds? or perhaps he likes to play with what pipe smokers call the ‘retro-hale’ (nose to mouth). Be observant, notice how he handles the vapor. What is his cadence between puffs, what verbal comments does he make about the experience?
After this initial ‘test session’ your work starts to begin. Hopefully Joe has just shown you a preference for certain types of vaping style.
Based on the style lets go to work with an example formula, and see how we will tailor it to the new vaper.
Explain to Joe that Taste is Subjective and that at first we are NOT looking for a result of “oh my God I just found the Holy Grail, I found by Gods luck the one juice formula that I will vape fore-ever…” Explain that patience is a virtue. It probably took him many years and many trips to various fast food joints to find the perfect greasy fries and burgers, vaping is no different, you have to try a lot of different things before your get the perfect fit…
But here is where we get down to brass tacks and some important considerations with converting a combustable smoker to a “tobacco vaper”. And this is where you as the “Old Dripper” must stay on your toes.
You might not be a “tobacco vaper” yourself, so some of the following might be new news even to you, but, trust me, it is critically important that you wrap your head around the following paragraphs so that you can do a proper job as the “Old Dripper”… —>>:Do you realized that: Most of what is passed off in the synthetic pre mix and DIY-recipe worlds that is called “tobacco vape juice” is not tobacco at all ?
Most of those recipes are just simple adaptations of someones favorite fruit or pastry recipe or candy recipe with a few drops of some very low quality imitation tobacco synthetic thrown in. Then the maker gets out his Label Machine and slaps a label that says “Fine Cuban Tobacco Vape” … A couple of problems with that. First, it is unlikely that the maker ever in his life tasted a Cuban Cigar, and second there is no a chance in Hell that mixing an overly sweet totally artificial pastry with a few drop of “something” will have the flavor profile of a Cuban Cigar or “Joe Camels’ beloved combustable cigarettes. To put it bluntly, in the internet vape recipe world, there is a level of nonsense, of mislabeling, and outright lying about what is a “tobacco vape”. It is at a point that it is almost beyond crazy. Confusion abounds everywhere and Candy and all various recipe makers have tossed out something they call a “tobacco vape”. But the reality is that almost none are, in any sense, ‘tobacco vapes’.
So the hazard is that your efforts to convert your friend Joe Camel to vaping is in real danger of failure as you give him sample of one overly sweet pastry after another. You will just confuse him and discourage his efforts. Let’s get him some tobacco flavor profiles right from the start.
So what makes up a “Tobacco Vape” ?
Time for a few definitions of words. Basically there are Four Group types of ingredients for tobacco vapes.
One Group is natural extractions made from real tobacco leaves. Some of those leafs may have benefited from careful and experienced hands that have fermented them in very specialized and controlled ways, or minimally processed them with methods like “flu curing” or extended aging. You see these ingredients in marketed products like Naturally-Extracted-Tobacco, LLC , as well as many small boutique providers like Want2Vape, and of course, us home DIY NET types.
Second Group is commercially made extractions from real tobacco using modern industrial herb and flavor extraction processes. Most people do not realize but this has become a huge industry in the food flavoring business and operates internationally. Some of these products are made with great care and are very high quality. For many years the center of this industry was in Italy, but now has taken a strong foothold in USA as well. You see these ingredients in highly marketed products like Black Note. You can buy these as concentrates for your own recipe mixing in products by INW (INAWERA) and some NicVape products
Third Group is not an extraction nor is it related to tobacco at all. It is the world of the synthetic food chemist. Because the flavor components of tobacco has been studied in great detail, it is known what the basic core compounds are that give tobacco its distinctive flavor taste and aroma. By creating analog molecules in the lab it is possible to make a product that seems to mimic tobacco for the consumer. The PROs of that is that the resulting product is patentable and can be financially protected by the manufacture, and also that it is usually very cheap to produce on an industrial scale, much cheaper than making natural extractions of the real plant material. The CONs is the chemistry brings with it unwanted secondary by products. Usually these have undesirable aroma and flavor components. Typical unwanted components are “plastic taste” and unpleasant and persistent tastes that take over and persist in the olfactory senses unlike natural flavors that dissipate in a pleasant and timely manner. You see these ingredients in highly marketed products like FLAVORAH - Additionally, often heard mis-information, is that somehow the artificial synthetic favors are “safer” than real tobacco extraction. The chemistry of that would have to be the subject of some other thread (actually books have been written on this subject and the chemistry is too involved to go into here. For those that are interested and have a college level background in chemistry you can PM me and I will give to you a bibliography list) . The short of the long of it is that commercial food chemists are mostly lying to you about the safety of their products.
Fourth Group is not so much of a group related to tobacco but is more a phenomenon of Social Media discourse, and has added tremendous confusion to the whole noble subject of “tobacco vapes”… I mentioned this above when I talked about “recipes that are just simple adaptations of someones favorite fruit or pastry recipe or candy recipe with a few drops of some very low quality imitation tobacco synthetic thrown in.” Then labeled and sold to you and Joe Camel as “Tobacco Vape”. If there has been nothing else in the entire world of vaping that has conspired to doom your friend Joe Camel to never have success with vaping it is that group of mis-labeled “products”. I understand that there are thousands of such recipes in the e-liquides-reciepie side of this web site, but please resist the temptation to use any of those when trying to bring along someone like our friend Joe Camel. Let’s get Joe Camel a pure simple experience he can use to start his vaping journey. An experience he can readily relate to. Let’s not shell shock his taste buds and his years of experience with combustibles and confuse him with this rag tag Fourth Group of recipes which amount to little more than a huge bag full of artificially flavored skittles with a slight almost undetectable drop of tobacco flavor thrown in as an after thought.
Now On to Part II
The Adventures of Joe Camel and the Old Dripper Continues - Part II
In part I we observed Joe Camel using several vaping devices. We made some notes, and created a plan of attack.
Hopefully it showed up during the tests that there was a clear cut device and style preference on his part. If not, try to steer him to a simple RDA or RTA in the 18 to 22mm size on top of a simple single 18650 regulated mod. Set him up with a 2.55 SS coil over 1.0 ohm at not more than 15 watts. Keep the airflow restriction down tight, in agreement with his past pattern of cigarette draws. In all cases try to steer him away from pods unless he insists. Although there are many pod adapters now made for regulated devices, it will be a hassle to clean and change wicking and coils on pod vape devices given the nature of the natural products that tend to gunk up coils much more so than synthetic products.
If low wattage single coils is not possible, and for some reason he is enamored with a huge dual coil sub ohm cloud setup, then don’t panic. Go with the flow. It’s all about Joe being comfortable. However, and here is an important point. When vaping real tobacco vapes (from my grouping in the first post of Numbers Group 1 and Group 2) You will have to adjust the recipe formula for larger cloud devices by adding VG to a base formula and dropping the NIC. This type of adjustment occurs in conventional non tobacco formulas as well, but it is super important when dealing with real tobacco vapes !
As a way of explaining this dilution process lets start with a simple example formula that is a nice dry Marlboro like Cigarette;
Example Recipe #1 Marlboro (Restricted MTL 15w)
1.5g - PG
4.5g - VG
0.5g - INW DNB -
0.2g - INW Virginia Abs -
0.4g - INW Garuda Abs -
0.6g - Nic (100mg/ml)
Example Recipe #2 Marlboro (Airy DL 35w)
2.5g - PG
7.5g - VG
0.5g - INW DNB -
0.2g - INW Virginia Abs -
0.4g - INW Garuda Abs -
0.3g - Nic (100mg/ml)
Let’s talk about this formula a little bit. First the method to mix any formula I present here is just to get an accurate scale that measures in grams and make the formula up exactly as I list it. Do Not try to translate it to the e-liquids calculator or any other “conversion type” calculator that is using hidden behind the scenes algorithms to give you “percentages” or “specific gravities” Just use the formula EXACTLY as I present it here. Mix by weight ONLY.
Note in the above two formulas that I have adjusted NIC and the ratio of PG/VG. Again, real tobacco extracts are very sensitive to the type of device, the wattage, and the coil type. I suggest simple single wire 316L Stainless. Stay away from exotic coils, and Kanthal will impart ‘off’ flavors to tobacco.
Now, depending on how our friend Joe Camel has reacted to this first round of taste testing you can proceed to use your judgement from here and possibly modify the formulas. But I suggest you let him go home with a 10ml bottle of these and let him “live with ti” a bit. Remember, he is making a big mental, lifestyle, and social change. It takes time. Be patient with him and supportive.
After he returns you can discuss his impressions of the experience. If he is making noises that this “pretty good” but needs to taste more like tobacco, then you have the oppurtinuty to Hybrid the base formula with a real NET like this:
Example Recipe #3 Marlboro (Airy DL 35w) HYBRID:
10.0g - 25/75 PG/VG Base:
0.5g - INW DNB -
0.2g - INW Virginia Abs -
0.4g - INW Garuda Abs -
0.3g - Nic 100mg/ml
2.0g - PreMixed Nicaraguan Cigar Filler
This will add a distinct “cigar note” and surprisingly many lifetime cigarette smokers have all along been “closet cigar smokers” and adapt readily to cigar flavor profiles added to their vape. To obtain Pure Leaf extractions like the Cigar Filler above you can make your own NETs or obtain them from some boutique shops that are willing to sell small quantities. PM me for details.
If you want to try another Marlboro formula for Joe Camel here is another HYBRID using products from NicVape and Want2Vape
Example Recipe #4 Marlboro (Restricted MTL 15w)
NicVape Cuban (0.52g)
NicVape Tenn (1.05g)
Want2Vape STOCKHOLM (2.10g)
VG (6.5 g)
PG (3.5
NIC 100mg/ml (0.7)
By this time I hope you are making good progress with your friend Joe Camel and are dialing in the taste flavor profile direction that he wants to travel towards.
Let’s RE-CAP a couple of take-away points from all this:
Stay away from commercial premixed so-called “tobacco vapes” like TRBECA /Halo which although labeled as Tobacco, are anything but!
Stay away from recipes you find on line that look like the kitchen sink with a little “tobacco” thrown in
Many dedicated and experienced NET types that are looking for pure tobacco taste (like our friend Joe Camel is) commonly use only a single extraction in the formula (like those that enjoy Single Malt Scotch), and rarely have a formula with more than 3 items ALL of which must be tobacco !
Mix Your own from products in the Group Numbers 1&2 above. Relying on pre-mixed commercial vendors is probably hopeless and a waste of time and money.
Stay away from sweeteners and what is know in the pipe blending world as “casings” These can be chocolates, rums, anise, and so forth. If you want to experiment with English Pipe Blends that have traditionally used these type of casings, then you would be better off extracting a NET from professionally blended experts like Russ Ouellette at Lane Ltd… If you want to experiment with such samples see my blog. 4
PS: INAWERA products can be hard to find, as they are made with real tobacco. Some USA Vendors like BullCity no longer carry them for fear that the FDA will take a dim eye about that practice. You can, however, get them here:
INAWERA is here: http://www.inaweraflavours.com/en/
NicVape is here: https://www.nicvape.com
Want2Vape is here: https://www.want2vape.com