Best Cigars for Extraction

[CAAB]

Understanding that flavor is subjective; looking for what the best cigars are for PG extraction? I am conducting another round of extractions, want to try 1 or 2 cigars. I like bold and spicy, but open to other suggestions and perhaps an idea of flavor notes.

[Peter_Ramish]

(..) want to try 1 or 2 cigars. I like bold and spicy, but open to other suggestions and perhaps an idea of flavor notes.

well what I would suggest is that, rather than buy rolled cigars, for bold and spicy you get some Nicaraguan Ligero leaf from LeafOnly. The reason is two fold. First the price of quality rolled cigars is just outrageous now. So for the price of one or two high quality cigars you will get 1/4 lb of pure leaf. Second is that from an extraction flavor standpoint you would be better off to extract the pure filler leaf. If you extract a whole cigar you will wind up with a flavor blend of the filler, binder, and wrapper. Nothing wrong with that, but to start out I think you will get your bearings faster if you just deal with one part of the cigar at a time.

here is a link to the LeafOnly Search that you might use for a shopping cart of the type of flavor profile you are talking about:
https://www.leafonly.com/search/Nicaraguan%20Ligero

I have many cigar and cigar leaf notes scattered around this BBS, but here is a few I cut and pasted. If you need samples I can send you some. That might be a good idea, as the world of cigar leaf can be a little confusing, and some of these cigars extract a flavor profile that is much cleaner and milder and worlds away from the combustable experience. Extracting rolled cigars is an "It is what it is" adventure, and many times what you think it will extact is not what actually happens.

Also, the time lines are very long. Those of us that have done rolled cigar extractions typically use a full 12 month in PG. And that is another point. I know that you [mention]CAAB[/mention] have been trying to not use PG, so that will be a real problem as you will need the complete extraction power of PG. Using EA is probably not going to make it work.

============ various cut an pastes from my many notes in this catagory=====

Partagas Black Label Classico
This is a maceration made from the actual named cigar, and has the charastic smooth and mellow vape quality of all such extractions, however in this case the more robust quality is picked up from the filler which is blended with a mixture of Nicaraguan Ligero and Dominican Piloto Cubano Ligero. In the world of DIY NET macerations from real cigars are rare, and this is such a example.

La Gloria Cubana Cigars
This is a maceration made from the actual named cigar, and has the charastic smooth and mellow vape quality of all such extractions, however in this case the more robust quality is picked up from the filler which is blended with a mixture of Nicaraguan Ligero and Dominican Piloto Cubano Ligero.

============Leaf from LeafOnly=============
Leafs:
FRONTO
This is a mixture of various leaf that is intended for use on the cigar rolling table as wrapper. For vaping purposes I obtain scrap that is a mixture of various types as it is not important to have uniformity of appearance as we are macerating it, not rolling it on the outside of a cigar. This leaf produces a light in intensity and pure, and very clean and mellow vape that is different from pipe blends.

Aged Nicaraguan Ligero Jalapaa-
The vape profile is very near to my extract of the finished cigar Jose Marti Nicaraguan, although lighter smoother and with distinct room filling top notes of spicy aromatic tobacco. Very authentic cigar only tobacco vape. Works well as a smooth and mild ADV or a mix component to add cigar aromatics. Recommended.

[CAAB]

well what I would suggest is that, rather than buy rolled cigars, for bold and spicy you get some Nicaraguan Ligero leaf from LeafOnly. The reason is two fold. First the price of quality rolled cigars is just outrageous now. So for the price of one or two high quality cigars you will get 1/4 lb of pure leaf. Second is that from an extraction flavor standpoint you would be better off to extract the pure filler leaf.

Also, the time lines are very long. Those of us that have done rolled cigar extractions typically use a full 12 month in PG.

Yikes, 12 months... Well, something to look forward to for next summer. Funny thing is that I ordered a La Gloria Cubana Cigar from my own research. And a Padron 1964 Anniversary Series, for sentimental reasons.

BTW, I am leaning more towards the idea of PG lately. I have found my sensitivity issues may be more related to wattage and nicotine level.

============Leaf from LeafOnly=============

I took a look and found some interesting tobacco leaves. I think I'll give that avenue a go. That website looks like quite the rabbit hole if you have a good extraction method. Do you find that you still need 12 months with the Fronto and Ligero Jalapa in PG?

[Peter_Ramish]

And a Padron 1964 Anniversary Series, for sentimental reasons.

Now it would be almost criminal to chop that work of art up and make a vape out of it. Better just smoke that one or the tobacco Gods will look down on you unkindly -

Do you find that you still need 12 months with the Fronto and Ligero Jalapa in PG?

No I have done as little as 3 months on both those and they turn out very fine. After 3 months, you can withdraw 10mls or so to experiment with and tide you over, and then let the rest of it sit for progressively longer extraction time if you feel it necessary.

And yes, LeafOnly is somewhat of a playground. They have a great 'search' feature and if you plug in terms like 'Virginia' you will see that you could be busy for years sampling around through all of it. As I understand it LeafOnly was started as a hobby venture, but it is maturing into a real deal. Very interesting for sure.

[CAAB]

Now it would be almost criminal to chop that work of art up and make a vape out of it. Better just smoke that one or the tobacco Gods will look down on you unkindly

I will have to think about that one. It's the one I'm most familiar with in terms of smoking, so I thought that it would be a good litmus test for comparing the smoke to vape experience. Although like you say, maybe it's better to save it for a rainy day and combust it the old fashioned way...

And yes, LeafOnly is somewhat of a playground.

I purchased the Aged Nicaraguan Ligero Jalapa and an Organic Pennsylvania Broadleaf. Somewhat unrelated to a cigar leaf extraction, I purchased an Organic Burley, and an Organic Canadian Virginia Flue Cured from LeafOnly. And that is it this year for vaping related expenses!

I am going to run a series of concurrent extractions, one set using PG exclusively, and another set using a VG/PGA blended solvent. I may consider 10% H2O in the VG, including the 5% H2O present in the Everclear. It appears this experiment will take the better part of a year to complete, considering there are two rolled cigars in play. I'm going to go for 115°F in a hot water bath for 8 hours for both solvents, followed by shelving it in the basement. Will sample immediately after the hot water bath, followed by monthly sampling until the optimum flavor profile is reached.

I'm reluctant to send the last series of H2O samples out because of potential contamination concerns, but I'll send you out some of the VG extracts once they are deemed complete, and maybe some of that 1964 Padron if I decide to cut it up and put it in a jar.

[CAAB]

So the short of it is that I have sampled some of the individual cigar leaf extracts you sent, and I found them interesting, but really missing something. As you have mentioned before, they are ingredients intended to be brought together into a whole.

Not knowing what I was doing and being somewhat impatient, I blended a whole bunch of the extracts together. I was very surprised at the result; the whole was definitely more than the sum of the parts. In fact, I could see how blending your own individual leaf extracts could result in a superior end product.

That said, LeafOnly is having a Black Friday sale coming up. I was thinking of expanding my extractions beyond the Pennsylvania Broadleaf and the Aged Nicaraguan Ligero Jalapa.

In your mind, from your experience, would you have a list of must-have tobacco leaves that you suggest for a broad sampling? I was watching a video on all the different leaves, and it is a little over my head. There are binder and wrapper leaves for example, that I wonder if they aren't strictly necessary for a vaper because they are more of a cigar rolling leaf and lend minimal flavor profile. Of maybe a lower grade can be purchased because you don't need a honking intact leaf, you could have imperfections, as it's going in a jar.

[Peter_Ramish]

Not knowing what I was doing and being somewhat impatient, I blended a whole bunch of the extracts together. I was very surprised at the result; the whole was definitely more than the sum of the parts. In fact, I could see how blending your own individual leaf extracts could result in a superior end product.

Glad you are having good luck on the blending of the cigar extractions. If you want a "ready to go" complete and very excellent cigar extraction (no later blending necessary..) I STRONGLY suggest you try :

https://www.smokingpipes.com/tobacco/by-maker/Tabac-Manil/moreinfo.cfm?Product_ID=151938

I have been vaping it in my daily rotation for over a year and fail to tire of it.

That said, LeafOnly is having a Black Friday sale coming up. I was thinking of expanding my extractions beyond the Pennsylvania Broadleaf and the Aged Nicaraguan Ligero Jalapa.

In your mind, from your experience, would you have a list of must-have tobacco leaves that you suggest for a broad sampling? I was watching a video on all the different leaves, and it is a little over my head. There are binder and wrapper leaves for example, that I wonder if they aren't strictly necessary for a vaper because they are more of a cigar rolling leaf and lend minimal flavor profile. Of maybe a lower grade can be purchased because you don't need a honking intact leaf, you could have imperfections, as it's going in a jar.

...if you go to this part of their site
( https://www.leafonly.com/cigar-tobacco-leaf/tobacco-leaves ) and scroll down to the fillers and binders you can see a lot of stuff that looks really great to try. But, again, my TIS is not your TIS so I only speak for myself here on this following list:
(these are all fillers and binders, as wrapper leaf will require the effort of later blending...although some of this may need blending as well, that is just the reality of PURE Leaf extractions.. )

NOTE: This following is not really a "must have list" but a list of items that 'caught my eye' and that I would like to sample. My 'Must Have List' would be something different, and maybe I should post that list under a separate Topic. If you take the effort to 'sharp eye' through my ramblings over the years you can pick up what I consider 'must haves', but I can see that it might be nice for me to just list them in seperate Post of: "'Best of / Must Have Cigar Leaf Extractions' ...

Aged Cameroon Seco Filler
Aged Mexican San Andres Viso Filler
Aged Nicaraguan Ligero Esteli Filler
Honduran Binder
Aged Honduran Ligero Filler
Aged Brazilian Arapiraca Filler

and, of course, if you can get a further deal on lower grade sold at a steep $ discount that is alway worth a try, as you note, "it is going in a jar" so we do not need the mechanical or cosmetic perfection that a roller needs.

[CAAB]

My list of interest is similar to yours. The one thing I observed was that the Mexican San Andres Viso filler was out of stock, so I thought that I would try the Mexican San Andres Wrapper, but I wasn't sure that would result in a similar extraction, aside from the steeper price.

I was also thinking the CT 1LS Broadleaf Wrapper, because I hear favorable reviews of Connecticut Broadleaf varietals.

[CAAB]

So here is the next list of PG - VG/PGA comparison extractions I will have running. I will probably have them go a year in the jar.

CT Havana Primed Ungraded Leaf
Aged Indonesian Sumatra Seco Filler
Mexican San Andres Wrapper
Honduran Binder
Aged Nicaraguan Ligero Esteli Filler
Aged Brazilian Arapiraca Filler

At some later date, I may start extracting new cigars from time to time just to compare to manually blended single leaf extractions. I am suspecting that the blended single leaf extracts may turn out to be a superior product after some careful work feeling out the ratios. After doing research, I have come to realize that cigars often have a ratio of leaves that have little to do with flavor and more to do with burn quality. Also, there is glue used to bind cigar wrappers whose effect on an NET I could only guess at.

With the leftover leaves not making it into an extraction jar, I have made a small investment in a tupperdor. Basically just a tupperware bin with gaskets, and a hygrometer inside with some Spanish cedar. I will be storing all cigar leaves I don't extract in the bin to age. This will help marry the flavors of the leaves and to absorb some of the aroma of the Spanish cedar. My hope is that future extractions of these leaves will improve from their aging in the tupperdor.

For giggles I also bought some cigar glue. I might try rolling a cigar or two at some point. Nothing serious, more for educational purposes.

[CAAB]

On whole-leaf extractions, do you remove the stem? I am wondering what flavor profile a stem might impart. Chewed on a stem for the heck of it; it was pretty harsh relative to the leaf. Best guess is that it would add robustness.

I know from a cigar rolling standpoint the stem is removed, but I imagined that was more for burning quality.

[Peter_Ramish]

On whole-leaf extractions, do you remove the stem? I am wondering what flavor profile a stem might impart.

Yeah probably contribute nothing very good, I pull my stems...

[CAAB]

Stems pulled. Got another round of extractions waiting for a year. Let me know if you are interested in any of the whole leaves Peter_Ramish, I can send you some to try extracting yourself. I have them sitting in a tupperdor now with some Spanish cedar. I have everything organic LeafOnly has to offer, in addition to the cigar leaves mentioned above.

Strongly considering just having everything sit for one year, instead of waiting for the six month mark and sampling. Maybe just pull 1 or two of the pipe tobaccos to hold me over.

[Peter_Ramish]

.. Let me know if you are interested in any of the whole leaves..

Strongly considering just having everything sit for one year, instead of waiting for the six month mark and sampling. Maybe just pull 1 or two of the pipe tobaccos to hold me over.

I sent you a PM on your generous offer.. I know what you mean on the "just let 'em sit" method. If you have a good deal of jars (10 ot 20 or more) then this makes a lot of sense. I have a limit now of no more than 6 jars, as the whole hobby/project was getting entirely out of hand here. Actually what I really was hoping for is that someone would take some of my abandoned already made extractions that have been sitting in the fridge for over two years. I have many, many Latakia and English Pipe Shop Blends here. My tastes have changed and I never vape them anymore. I hate to just throw them down the drain, but eventually that is what will have to happen.

If anyone is lurking around here and reading this, and is interested, then just PM me or email me, and I would be happy to send them out for FREE !!!

[darwindesign]

the world of cigar leaf can be a little confusing, and some of these cigars extract a flavor profile that is much cleaner and milder and worlds away from the combustable experience...

Also, the time lines are very long. Those of us that have done rolled cigar extractions typically use a full 12 month in PG...

Partagas Black Label Classico
La Gloria Cubana Cigars

I'm curious as to you selection of these two cigars if you don't mind. Were these Cigars ones that were in your preference to smoke and they just happened to to extract well, or was it more along the lines of I tried a bunch and these came out better than average? Do the extracts you make from these two cigars remind you at all of their profiles when smoking them? I ask because I snuck a taste of a Cain Daytona I put in PG four weeks ago and, although I enjoyed the flavor, it doesn't have any of the same flavors as a vape that it does when smoked.

As for the extended steep times what is happening to the extract in month 2-12 vs the first 4-6 weeks? Is this just a matter of concentration or is the flavor profile itself changing? If the flavor profile then are we talking just nuanced notes or does the primary part of the profile shift?

[Peter_Ramish]

.. or was it more along the lines of I tried a bunch and these came out better than average? Do the extracts you make from these two cigars remind you at all of their profiles when smoking them?

I posted those two for a recommendation to the first time cigar extractor / experimenter so that he might have relatively good luck out of the stating gate. I hope the point is getting across that very few cigars will extract to a 'ready to vape, full flavor profile".. most will extract to a mild single profile of (usually) the fillers flavor profile. The binders and the wrappers will usually not make it to through the extraction, too mild and although balanced by weight by the professional blender for a combustion blend, the ratio is out of wack for a vape flavor profile. This is a point of frustration to those trying to extract cigars.

A much better route is to extract the Pure natural leafs (most of us are getting our leaf samples from leafonlydotcom). Then use those extractions to combine into a flavor profile of your liking. You have full control that way and escape the "it is what it is" problem. If you extract a commercial blended cigar that was created by its maker for use as a combustion flavor, you will NOT get that profile in an extraction. You have to take a different route to get there, that is: extract each leaf type separately, then combine/ blend the extractions.

As for the extended steep times what is happening to the extract in month 2-12 vs the first 4-6 weeks? Is this just a matter of concentration or is the flavor profile itself changing? If the flavor profile then are we talking just nuanced notes or does the primary part of the profile shift?

That is an interesting point. I never thought of it exactly that way, but I would say what is happening is sort of like a house made of lego blocks: i.e. Over time each one of the "flavor blocks" transfers to the extraction and over a great deal of time all the blocks appear, forming a complete profile. It is just that the process takes a lot of time, and the finished profile will surprise you as not being what it is when combusted. But that is not to say that it is not a reward at the end of the wait. For example, because you mentioned or asked about my extraction of a long favored smoked stick, I will mention a particular one that I must have smoke a zillion of over the years: Jose Marti, Robusto from their early Nicaraguan factory. That extraction is nothing like puffing on a lighted one, but delightful in its own way, and thoroughly enjoyable.

I guess I need to make a post on suggested leafonlydotcom starter extractions. You can get most of that info from just carefully reading some of the previous posts around here, (see CAABs list above, and also many other similar posts are around the BBS), but I would here suggest this brief list (by no means complete, but a place to start) If you have these, then you can start post extraction blending adventures, and have a lot of productive fun:

-Perique
sourced from: WholeLeafTobaccco.com
-Brightleaf Virginia Flue Cured - Sweet
sourced from: leafonlydotcom
-Burley
sourced from: leafonlydotcom
-Aged Nicaraguan Ligero Jalapaa-
sourced from: leafonlydotcom
-FRONTO - (this was a mixed 'scrap' offering at a bargain price!!!, a real find!)
sourced from: leafonlydotcom

Just as a sort of counter point to this subject you should know that extracting from a professionally blended cigar is by NO means an assurance of success to get to a good vape. For example, Several various Cohiba Dominican examples extracted to flavored junk ! Just horrible !

[darwindesign]

Thanks for the reply. I understand your point with the single leaf tobaccos and can appreciate where you opinion is coming from. I still have interest in the topic of making extracts from finished cigars. To me the added cost is of little import as in the end your total cost per ml is going to be low compared to commercial ejuice. If the maceration process takes a year i'm okay with that as well as long as I can get a sense of where it is going after a month. I'm used to waiting years for Cigars to hit their golden spot so having some jars sitting around that I don't have to worry about RH seems kind of trivial. I can also see where some people might find it problematic slicing up a expertly rolled piece of art. The way I see it they would be right if I was planning on chopping up my Arturo Fuente Anejo Shark, but that would be much different than doing the same with a 8-5-8 maduro.

The thinking behind wanting to explore this path is that single leaf tobaccos that you can purchase are not quite the same as what a cigar is rolled with. A cigar has had it various tobaccos chosen and often fermented to have particular tastes. These tobaccos, at least on better cigars, are sorted so they fit a very specific profile. Once rolled the drying out normally kicks off another fermentation process, and there is frequently yet another if you age them yourself, all of which refine flavor. So my thought is that cigars may have the potential to produce an easily reproducible consistent extraction that potentially could contain complexities above less processed and aged tobaccos. Additionally I happen to have a decent point of reference for various cigars so if I was able to ascertain something akin to 'this cigar flavor' translates to 'this vape flavor' then I might be able to make educated guesses on what may be good candidates.

As for the extraction time this is what actually is the biggest unknown in my mind. I could see if someone was trying to pull flavors from connecticut or the volado priming of almost any varietal then it would be problematic as there is not much flavor there to start with. This also seems rather pointless as they primarily provide filler and mouth feel and are not something that would be expected to be providing a flavor profile as much as just pushing it one way or another in their combustible state. My first try at this is with a cigar that is a Nicaraguan puro that is mostly ligero, so pretty far away from mild tobacco, but four weeks in the strength of the extraction is fairly close to the two pipe blends I started at the same time (Peter Stokkebye Luxury Bullseye Flake and Dan Tobacco Shannon) which i'm enjoying at only 10% in a finished mix. At this point i'm wondering whether to filter the batch or not. If the flavor profile is going to stay the same and sitting on it for some extended period of time is only going to get me a concentrate I mix at 5-8% then that is a waste of time to me to just maximize yield.

Unfortunately I have very little frame of reference with pretty much everything vaping as i've been doing it less than two months. I have determined a preference for the NET type of flavor so i'm just working my way to finding my DIY ADV.

[darwindesign]

Just as a sort of counter point to this subject you should know that extracting from a professionally blended cigar is by NO means an assurance of success to get to a good vape. For example, Several various Cohiba Dominican examples extracted to flavored junk ! Just horrible !

I would counter that the Dominican Cohiba was junk to start with. I'm not actually that big of a fan of the real deal either (just a matter of flavor preference), but they are miles away from what General Cigar makes.

[Peter_Ramish]

My first try at this is with a cigar that is a Nicaraguan puro that is mostly ligero, so pretty far away from mild tobacco,(...) which i'm enjoying at only 10% in a finished mix. At this point i'm wondering whether to filter the batch or not. If the flavor profile is going to stay the same and sitting on it for some extended period of time is only going to get me a concentrate I mix at 5-8% then that is a waste of time to me to just maximize yield.

Unfortunately I have very little frame of reference with pretty much everything vaping as i've been doing it less than two months. I have determined a preference for the NET type of flavor so i'm just working my way to finding my DIY ADV.

A couple of comments: That Nicaraguan sounds like a nice choice, I think it might work out well for you. Give it some time. A trick some of us use when developing a new extract is to part off a few mls or so and sample test it, then let the rest sit. In another month part off another few mls and test again. Keep repeating the cycle until you are confidant that additional extraction time is not helping the profile.

Not withstanding the fact that I did write an article on how to speed up extraction times, and I understand that the long time lines involved have concerned everyone who has attempted tobacco extractions, BUT there is a second maturing stage involved that occurs later on after the initial extraction of the main chemical components. see viewtopic.php?f=2&t=13 for more details on this subject. -I need to start a specific thread about the whole concept and practice of "filtering".. But a glimpse of my thoughts on that: I personally do not filter my extracts. I use a centrifuge at a low rate which leaves micro fine particles (+5um) in suspension. My experience is that this leads to later and very beneficial flavor development similar to the way red wines develop over time (sometimes in the scale of years). This development is in a space beyond the initial extraction, what might be called, "maturing", a very subtle but quite noticeable blending of separate flavor points or "nodules" into a "whole".

So the point is: if you all of sudden decide at, say for example 2 months extraction time of your Nicaraguan puro, to "filter" it to less than -3um then you will "freeze" it at that point. I know many experienced tobacco extraction aficionados do this sort of sub micro filtering, in some cases down to -1um, as a matter of routine and are happy with the results they get. But go cautiously onto that territory.

You will get to your ADV, not to worry ! Think of the adventure of DIY-NET the same way you think of your wine cellar BTW, I do agree with your comment about ".. the Dominican Cohiba was junk to start with.." The whole evil trademark stealing by GC is irritating as hell.

[darwindesign]

That is a pretty interesting article. I've read quite a bit on different forums about heat bumps, ultrasonic, centrifuge, PGA extracts, etc. but i'm currently limiting myself to minimal as I get my feet wet and get a feel for the land. That is an interesting point about over filtering and I will have to do some tests both ways once I decide to harvest. I purchased 2.5um filters because I read that mold spores are 3um and that was the primary thing I wanted to make sure was removed.

Do you have any thoughts on moisture content of the tobacco prior to extraction? I've read that water in ejuice is best to avoid as much as possible. At the same time experience tells me that once tobacco is dried past a certain point there is a flavor loss that does not return when rehydrated. I store my cigars at 70F @ 60RH which is the minimum before the more delicate leaves get too brittle. Would this be an ideal hydration level or should I push it a bit lower?

[Peter_Ramish]

Do you have any thoughts on moisture content of the tobacco prior to extraction?

This question above was split off from here so that we can continue on with this interesting subject in its own dedicated area...

see: viewtopic.php?f=13&t=71 for that discussion...

[CAAB]

The thinking behind wanting to explore this path is that single leaf tobaccos that you can purchase are not quite the same as what a cigar is rolled with. A cigar has had it various tobaccos chosen and often fermented to have particular tastes.

I had a similar thought. For example, I read somewhere that Padron cigars involve multiple private farms, some owned by the Padron family. I doubt you'll find that on Leaf Only. Some of these cigars are very elaborate in terms of growing region.

The only problem is that the end goal for them is combustion, which will result in a different experience than vaping. Some of that stuff in there is just to help burning. Maybe a vape blend needs a higher ratio of wrapper and binder.

I had a thought though. It seems messy, but I am thinking next time I want to try a cigar extract, I will rip it apart and try to separate the wrapper, binder, filler, and create a separate extract from each one and then try to combine them later. Then I can bump up the ratio of wrapper and possibly completely removing components of the filler. for example.

Maybe that would be a good experiment. Take one whole cigar and put it in one extract, then compare it with the combined extracts of the different components of the same type of cigar.

Then possibly compare that with similar Leaf Only varietals that match the particular cigar profile.

[darwindesign]

Certain cigars are made with tobacco that is specific to their own, or very specific farmers. Outside of maybe a couple rare exceptions (Camaco and Macanudo come to mind) the farmer is not a good indicator of what the tobacco is. The leaf type and growing regions are going to provide the greatest influence on what the leaf tastes like. This gets further broken down with which priming the leaf came from, and how it was fermented. Just like their is significant quality differences in food, so exists the same with tobacco leaves. Your higher end companies tend to pick the best tasting leaves as their profit margins allow for such an expenditure. The topic of cigar leaves and production is vast enough that an individual wanting to get a working knowledge of it would need to do extensive research and smoking to get a good baseline. I fully understand why the recommend to not travel down this path.

As for the filler being chosen for purposes other than flavor this is not a thing outside of low quality cigars that are more "put whatever in a binder and wrap it up" and Acid cigars (they are purposely made with low flavor tobacco as that comes from their infusing process (spray perfume in a room full of cigars). Wrappers are special in that they have to be cosmetically flawless but they are almost always a primary flavor component. The binder likewise is given special consideration for structural integrity but also plays a significant portion of the flavor. As for the filler this can be true to a certain extent depending on what vitola but just to balance out the flavor so the blend is similar in various sizes. If you buy a big 60 ring gauge cigar it does not usually taste stronger than a 50 ring gauge. Obviously this can only be due to lighter flavored tobaccos being used to provide much of the extra bulk.

As for the Padron I wouldn't try something like a 1964. Most of what you pay for with that cigar is the expertise in rolling combined with aged tobaccos that are very refined with subtle notes that evolve as the cigar progresses. I highly doubt much if any of the most delicate notes are capable of being extracted and it would be a huge waste of money. I would suspect that if you took a Padron 4000 and extracted that it would be close to the same at a fifth of the cost.

[CAAB]

The topic of cigar leaves and production is vast enough that an individual wanting to get a working knowledge of it would need to do extensive research and smoking to get a good baseline.

That's the difficulty I've encountered so far. I'm more of a "go to the cigar shop and ask for a good cigar" type of person. But I feel like I haven't found the "aha" moment with vaping and naturally extracted cigars. It's not something you can just go to a cigar shop and ask about.

I've had to delve into the nitty gritty of cigar making to reverse engineer the process and develop something more suitable to vaping. It's possible that certain cigars and a certain extraction method might get close, I am still working on that personally. Granted I've only started seriously pursuing the subject and have 24 pending cigar extracts to sample. My earlier experiments were dead ends. PGA extraction method is no good in my opinion for cigars. And the H2O method I developed needs serious reworking for safety reasons.

It sounds like you have a good head start in terms of cigar knowledge though. I'll be interested to hear what you come up with.

As for the Padron I wouldn't try something like a 1964. Most of what you pay for with that cigar is the expertise in rolling combined with aged tobaccos that are very refined with subtle notes that evolve as the cigar progresses. I highly doubt much if any of the most delicate notes are capable of being extracted and it would be a huge waste of money. I would suspect that if you took a Padron 4000 and extracted that it would be close to the same at a fifth of the cost.

Too late, haha. I finished filtering the extract after a year in a jar of PG and another jar of VG/PGA. I am off vaping until December at least, so I have to wait to sample. Next I will try extracting Padron 4000.

As for the filler this can be true to a certain extent depending on what vitola but just to balance out the flavor so the blend is similar in various sizes. If you buy a big 60 ring gauge cigar it does not usually taste stronger than a 50 ring gauge.

That's an interesting thought. Perhaps the diameter of the cigar is an important factor in selecting for extraction purposes.

[darwindesign]

That's the difficulty I've encountered so far. I'm more of a "go to the cigar shop and ask for a good cigar" type of person. But I feel like I haven't found the "aha" moment with vaping and naturally extracted cigars. It's not something you can just go to a cigar shop and ask about.

I have not spent a lot of time in cigar shops but unless you happen to get really lucky with the person your talking to the "give me a good cigar" thing is more likely than not to give an overpriced or substandard result. You really have to name a flavor profile (or leaf blend) or a specific cigar and ask for similar offerings to get anywhere.

Have you posted notes on the cigars you have tried and what you got out of them anywhere?

[CAAB]

I have not spent a lot of time in cigar shops but unless you happen to get really lucky with the person your talking to the "give me a good cigar" thing is more likely than not to give an overpriced or substandard result. You really have to name a flavor profile (or leaf blend) or a specific cigar and ask for similar offerings to get anywhere.

I am fortunate in that I have a friend who is associated with the shop I go to and is a good reference. How have you explored cigars?

I don't yet have a plan going forward for which cigars to experiment with. The general idea is to explore a wide range of flavor profiles.

Have to posted notes on the cigars you have tried and what you got out of them anywhere?

I am waiting until possibly December when I can vape again to file a report here on my experiments. Half of my cigar type extracts are ready. The other half will be ready to process in December. At this juncture the only whole cigars I have extracted are "La Gloria Cubana" and "Padron 1964." The rest are single leaf varietals from Leaf Only. The idea being that the single leaf varietals will give me a basis of comparison for future cigar extracts.

For each cigar and single leaf varietal I am running a PG extraction and a separate VG/PGA extraction for comparison, so it will take some time to assess each one. It may be that some PG extracts will be better than VG/PGA extracts or vice versa. It may also be possible that it's more ideal to combine the PG and VG/PGA extracts.

[darwindesign]

How have you explored cigars?

Countless hours reading on a cigar forum to get started. I then read cigar reviews as I smoked them to understand how to translate what I was experiencing with how professional reviewers them. Once I found reviewers that had similar tastes than me then I could lean on to find good and bad choices. Eventually I smoked enough of them that by looking at the leaves and brand I had a fairly good idea of what something was going to be without reading reviews. By working out trades and purchases from other smokers online I was able to find out the effects of ageing before spending the time to do it myself. But more than anything it was just a matter of just smoking a very large variety over many years. This came at a high cost in time and money so it's not something i'm recommending to others.